The fourth grade ELA test had a listening passage about a talking yam - this is a completely incomprehensible concept for most 9 year old kids. Is the DOE going to scrap these dumb questions too? Are they short of decent testing material?

The two questions weren't ambiguous, they were invalid measures of reading comprehension and/or critical thinking skills. From what I hear, there were other problems as well.Teachers and principals see the 'lemons', but are forbidden by the state from sharing them with the public. Yet these are high stakes tests used to make decisions for kids, teachers, principals and schools. After the tests are taken, they should be public. We, newyorkprincipals.org, are encouraging parents, teachers and principals to take our survey about 3-8 testing. It is certainly not a scientific poll, but it provides an opportunity to express your opinion and concerns about NYS 3-8 testing and its ramifications.

This brings the following question to my mind: with all the talk of "accountability" in the classroom (ostensibly provided by the tests), who is holding the testmakers accountable for providing high-quality testing materials? Is there any oversight whatsoever? Why is my child's readiness to be promoted to the next grade dependent upon the people who brought us the Pineapple and the Hare, rather than upon the observation and assessment of his teachers who have seen him every day for an entire school year?

"Educators" did not develop this test, Pearson did. For millions of dollars. And the test is not an accurate measure of my students' abilities, but of some statistical norm the testing company is teasing out of the results. While many are finding the humor in this test selection, I am horrified that my 8th graders labored over questions for which there are no answers. It wasted their testing time, their energy, caused unnecessary angst and, for some, made them feel "dumb" for not finding the "right" answer. My kids spent more time on this selection than on any other. A selection that, according to the NYS Commissioner of Ed, was designed to compare NYS students against those in other states. Why should my evaluation be based not on my students' knowledge but on a selection that is intended to factor into some statistical formula? I have no problem being evaluated and I even welcome it, if only to silence those who do not teach but have an awful lot to say about the profession. But to use the results of a selection INTENDED to confuse my 13 year olds in my professional evaluation is ludicrous at best and criminal at worst.

There are so many outstanding pieces of authentic literature available. It makes more sense to have students read the literature in its entirety and then complete projects and activities that will provide true authentic assessments. The current format of testing takes up valuable class time that could be used for more meaningful learning experiences.

I think the story is whimsical and interesting. The questions are valid and require one to read the story carefully. The dialogue above suggests to me that it is very difficult to carry on any discussion of anything remotely related to teaching, teachers, unions, learning, kids, parents, or testing without it devolving into crowd noise. Maybe this is a necessary first step, getting opinionated. Now what's the next step? How do we start to organize our opinions into positions that we can use to help kids enjoy doing quality thinking, writing, talking, reading and listening?

I knew that some snarky person would not be able to resist pointing out a single typo. A substantive comment. Congrats.

This story was stupid. I mean an apple that talks and the the question in which I didn't get at all. The people who put this question on the exam is stupid...

I am so glad that they won't include those questions one our scores

Though the story of a talking pineapple is admittedly wierd, are we saying that 8th graders will not be able to understand the story and answer these simple question? (or let alone even get a chuckle at it?) I thought the questions and answers were fair and straightforward for an 8th grader. To say it doesn't might cross the line of simply being condescending to 8th graders.

So like i got the answers right but, i really didn't understand the sort i mean it was nice to like get away from the boring passages and read a goofy one but like really? Some of my friend expected spongebob too come out... like really? NEXT TIME COME UP WITH SOME ACTUAL QUESTIONS PLEASE! All in all though it was a pretty interesting passage that seemed to make fu of folktales for the pineapple didn't move... I thought though that the animals were hungry therefore they ate the pineapple, but them being annoyed didn't make sense...

The issue that I see with the test questions is that they seem to test abstract thinking/reasoning skills more than reading comprehension skills. These are cognitive skills that students may not have developed yet in 8th grade. Students usually develop abstract thinking skills between the ages of 12 and 15.

After two days spent proctoring both 4th and 5th grade ELA tests I was so angry about the time and money wasted on this nonsense that my poor husband ended up as collateral damage when I got home. On the third day of testing many of the kids merely went through the motions to get it over with. Three ninety minute tests in three days for eight, nine and ten year olds?? Much of what the children were asked to read was poorly written and meaningless. Now that the tests are kept highly secured, even after the testing is completed, it makes it difficult to show parents what their children are being subjected to. I made it a point to memorize (punctuation included) a few of the more poorly constructed sentences from a story about peepers on the 4th grade test. "Hearing the vibrant song of the frogs, though, I panned my flashlight through the grass, looking."
Or how about...
"I had identified them in the house earlier by sound alone and an unillustrated pamphlet on pond life."

Welcome to Florida's world. Our children have been subjected to this nonsense (politely put)for over a decade. The teachers have been hammered with it, too: first in terms of school "grades," which usually equal bonuses if the grade is an "A," and now individual teacher performance measures, which can determine salary. Another fine legacy of our former governor, Jeb Bush.

OK here's my question. Removing this section there are 6 questions in total. Does that bring the test down by 6 possible answers? What if you got them all right as I think my child did? Will they just have 6 less questions in the overall exam to average them by or count them as correct? You can't just have less questions to calculate by and still consider it fair can you? Just saying...

The story itself is delightful and the questions are perfectly valid. Moral: 8th grade students are expected to be better readers than some teachers and parents.

I whole heatedly agree with many of the previous comments and would just like to add...why are we pushing so much non-fiction if our children will just be asked to respond to nonsensical fantasy?? I am all for nonfiction, but as a mom and teacher I want children's days to be filled with purposeful instruction. Am I missing something here? AND how do we teach these kinds of critical thinking skills?? Really...a pineapple and a hare and a nonexistent owl? Maybe more money should be spent policing the editorial team of the tests we pay so much money to distribute and administer.

The Pineapple Kerfluffle underscores one very positive achievement of New York City education -- our kids have mastered leadership and community organizing skills. According to the Times, the pineapple passage has been used in numerous school districts across the country going back five years. It took NYC students (and their parents and teachers) to speak up, publicize the absurdity of this high-stakes test question and get it dropped.

Great work, NYC students! You learned how to take a stand and create positive change for students at home and nationally -- far more valuable skills than deconstructing the meaning of sleeves on pineapples.

Many things are so wrong with all of this. To pretend teachers would have any real input into sorry test items like this; for the commissioner to weasel his own way out of accountability by saying they do (while saying that the awesome common corification is coming and will make everything alright next year); the admission that the final version of a state test is not in place while still pressing/pressuring a rating system based on tests RIGHT NOW...it is clear that the wrong people are in charge. It is unfair to students, unfair to teachers, unfair to schools and puts way to much power in the hands of clueless fools. The "field test" materials from last year included anchor paper samples that were clearly created by adults pretending to be students-utilizing lame attempts to disguise handwriting and inject inconsistent artificial immaturity...it was just plain silly. Education will continue to fail if the pigeons are allowed to drive the bus-as they have been for decades. Put this in the hands of teachers, parents and kids.

Wait -- "Pineapples don't have sleeves," was the wisest thing said? Really, Mark and Daniel?

This is an ironic story about conformity. Apparently no one on here can identify an allegory or a metaphor. Maybe you should all go back to eighth grade. Also, stop complaining, please!

Some of us (NYC teachers and their students) had the benefit of having read some of these passages prior to the test. Teachers accumulate and use various passages including some that appeared on the 2012 ELA. So if the passages aren't written solely for the ELA, some students are at at an advantage, this makes the results invalid.

Here we go. The ELA, in general, is not a test that is appropriate for the grade expectation of the students it is administered to. Is a fourth grader really expected to know the meaning of the word excerpt? Are third graders really proficient enough in writing skills to write a personal response essay? I'm just wondering. Two years ago, before the days of secure tests, I took the opportunity to type some paragraphs from each grade of the ELA into my computer and then ran a scan on it to see what the reading levels were. The third grade tests had sections at the sixth grade reading level, while the fifth grade test had portions were at the third grade level. It was like that all the way through. The development of these tests need to be further scrutinized by READING SPECIALISTS who are familiar with the expected sight word knowledge, decoding ability, and comprehension skills expected at each grade level. I've had quite enough of watching my students cry. Education is supposed to be pleasant, not something that you dread.

Yes, the story is nonsensical, but the questions and answers make sense as they pertain to the story. One of the goals of an education is to learn to think - especially when one encounters new or unexpected situations. To teach and assess only facts is to prepare students to be obsolete by the time they graduate. And a talking pineapple is no sillier than a talking sponge, a school for wizardry, or a purple, singing dinosaur... The students should have no problem suspending their disbelief in order to understand the story.

the importance placed on standardized tests created by multimillion dollar companies with perhaps some input provided by trained teachers (that obviously dislike the classroom to the point that they would seek out an office job that applies to their credentials) has unfortunately diffused itself across our fluid border to schools in Ontario. Our literacy tests have begun to mirror yours in absurdity and lack of relation to a true measurement of skill - or at least I can deduce this from trying to pry out as much information from my students after completing our OSSLT (Ontario Secondary School LIteracy Test) as I can't even look at them. I spend five months with my English students. According to our Ministry of Education, I am not qualified to accurately report on their basic literacy skills. Instead, a room full of unemployed, most likely recently graduated teachers with little classroom experience determine whether or not my students meet a standard by evaluating their performance and ability to follow instructions and write neatly on a number of reading and writing tasks based on such strange topics as jelly bean coating and martial arts classes run by police officers. Our shift towards valuing standardized testing is more disturbing than a pineapple being eaten by disappointed forest animals.

Pearson runs ads on free sites like Craigslist looking for freelancers to write test questions. The government shouldn't be farming this important job out to Pearson.