News, data and conversation
about schools in New York City.
WNYC’s participation is supported by
Explore the News

Ravitch v. Rhee Fills Summer Lull

6 Comments
Respond
Related School

Aug. 10, 2012, 3:39 p.m.

In the quiet days of August, after summer school ends and before principals return to work, followers of education issues and news found it a good time to rehash ongoing debates, ourselves included.

WNYC’s Brian Lehrer Show re-aired interviews from leaders of different schools of thought regarding education reform. First up, Michelle Rhee, the former Washington schools chancellor and the founder of Students First, on the occasion of starting a New York chapter, studentsfirstNY. You can hear the interview here:

Next, the show aired a taped interview with Diane Ravitch, a research professor of education at New York University and author. The discussion focuses on school performance and the frustration some teachers feel about standardized testing. You can hear it here:

The Rhee versus Ravitch showdown also appeared on CNN this week. In an interview, Ms. Rhee decried the results of a study that ranked the United States 25th in education internationally and said one of the most important fixes to education was to improve teacher quality.

But, in an online rebuttal, Ms. Ravitch argued that the rankings did not take into account the most serious factor affecting performance.

Why are our international rankings low? Our test scores are dragged down by poverty. On the latest international test, called PISA, our schools with low poverty had scores higher than those of Japan, Finland, and other high-scoring nations. American schools in which as many as 25% of the students are poor had scores equivalent to the top-scoring nations. As the poverty level in the school rises, the scores fall.

Rhee ignores the one statistic where the United States is number one. We have the highest child poverty rate of any advanced nation in the world. Nearly 25% of our children live in poverty.

This is a scandal. Family poverty is the most reliable predictor of low test scores. How can we compare ourselves to nations like Finland where less than 5% of the children live in poverty?

Ms. Rhee does say in the interview that there is a “very significant digital divide in this country. We can’t allow kids who have more resources to do better academically and those who are worse off to be lower performing.”

In more local news, Jie Zhang was named the interim acting principal at Stuyvesant High School at the beginning of this week.

As Al Baker reported, she replaced Stanley Teitel who resigned last week amid a continuing cheating inquiry.

Ms. Zhang said that cheating was “not acceptable” and that she would not tolerate it. She also said she would enforce the existing policy that bars students from taking cellphones into school. She did not elaborate on what measures she would take, but students have said the school has had a relaxed attitude toward the citywide cellphone ban in schools, allowing students to bring them inside as long as they do not openly use them.

“It is my expectation for my children to have integrity,” Ms. Zhang said, “and that is what I will expect of Stuy students.”

Gothamist reported on Thursday a disturbing find. Students’ medical records and report cards were left on the curb outside Public School 316 Elijah Stroud. The report says the pile of documents found behind the Prospect Heights school included “medical, test, attendance and transfer records dating back to the late 1970s.” The maintenance crew cleaning out the school denied any knowledge of how the papers ended up unshredded, curbside.

“We don’t know anything about it,” one worker told Gothamist. Another added, “For damn sure we don’t know anything about it!”

Don’t forget that SchoolBook has updated its schools data, and the pages for all public schools now have the latest available information. That includes:

Grades 3-8 English language arts and math scores for 2012
Parent survey results
2011 Regents exam results
2011 graduation rates
2011 SAT scores
2011-12 official public school enrollment, broken down by race.

Because these numbers changed, so did the SchoolBook indexes, which rate schools on a 1-9 scale for performance, satisfaction and diversity. You can find out how the indexes are derived in our “Behind the Numbers” post and in our Frequently Asked Questions section.

Patricia Willens is the editor of SchoolBook. Follow her on Twitter @pwillens

6 Comments

Respond
Picture?type=square
Augustus Talk August 10, 2012, 9:15 PM

In Ms. Rhee, we have a woman who bases her "success" on test scores that were mostly illusory. A major cheating scandal investigation is underway. http://usat.ly/NS91lx. She has also admitted to taping a student's mouth shut while she was a teacher. StudentsfirstNY wrongly attacks the UFT for protecting teachers who are accused of sexual misconduct while Rhee's own husband has been accused of twice acting inappropriately with minors. http://bit.ly/QXflQf

Ms. Ravitch is a distinguished professor and scholar who understands that poverty is the main problem in American education, not the teachers who bear the brunt of the blame according to Rhee and other "reformers" who have a money interest in taking public schools private.

Add Reply
Picture?type=square
Arthur Goldstein August 10, 2012, 9:23 PM

"We can’t allow kids who have more resources to do better academically and those who are worse off to be lower performing.”

If that's the case, doesn't it follow we can't allow kids to have fewer resources? This is a far better solution than debasing the education of high-needs kids to test and punish, an idiotic exercise that has succeeded absolutely nowhere.

1 Reply
Picture?type=square
Jonathan Verlin August 13, 2012, 12:12 AM

Here we go again! Read the transcript of the video which aired on Fox on July 29 carefully. It has at least some of the earmarks suggesting that these insufferable know-it-alls play it loose with the facts: "...about this Harvard study…" What Harvard study?? What's the name of it? Who was the principal investigator(s)? When was it promulgated?? There are no substantive details found in the transcript. This person goes on to say "We are now 25 out of 34 nations when it comes to math." I spent about 30 minutes trying to find corroborating information by doing a simple Google search. I used the following search string: "harvard study" "25 of 34". Not being familiar with many Harvard studies and because of the very limited scope of the transcript, I didn't have anything to go on for a search string. I couldn't find such a study. I don't believe that it even exists. I reserve the right to be proven wrong and I must say that I have been more often than I care to admit. If you find anything, please feel free to call (267) 330-0692, e-mail teacherjrv@msn.com and set me straight. While you're at it, have a look at my website http://www.jverlin.com for other information debunking "school reform".

Rhee's remarkable tenure as a successful failure as a 3-year teacher is well known. She's using her for-profit company to malign our interity and unfairly demean our practices as a means of retribution for her unsuccessful "career" in the classroom. This she has done partly through misinformation bordering on lying. She even freely admitted to duct taping a child's mouth shut which the last time I looked, is tantamount to child abuse. Rhee has absolutely no business anywhere near a classroom let alone chancellor of an entire school district.

Add Reply
Picture?type=square
Jonathan Verlin August 13, 2012, 12:14 AM

Here we go again! Read the transcript of the video which aired on Fox on July 29 carefully. It has at least some of the earmarks suggesting that these insufferable know-it-alls play it loose with the facts: "...about this Harvard study…" What Harvard study?? What's the name of it? Who was the principal investigator(s)? When was it promulgated?? There are no substantive details found in the transcript. This person goes on to say "We are now 25 out of 34 nations when it comes to math." I spent about 30 minutes trying to find corroborating information by doing a simple Google search. I used the following search string: "harvard study" "25 of 34". Not being familiar with many Harvard studies and because of the very limited scope of the transcript, I didn't have anything to go on for a search string. I couldn't find such a study. I don't believe that it even exists. I reserve the right to be proven wrong and I must say that I have been more often than I care to admit. If you find anything, please feel free to call (267) 330-0692, e-mail teacherjrv@msn.com and set me straight. While you're at it, have a look at my website http://www.jverlin.com for other information debunking "school reform".

Rhee's remarkable tenure as a successful failure as a 3-year teacher is well known. She's using her for-profit company to malign our integrity and unfairly demean our practices as a means of retribution for her unsuccessful "career" in the classroom. This she has done partly through misinformation but predictably through lying. She even freely admitted to duct taping a child's mouth shut which the last time I looked, is tantamount to child abuse. Rhee has absolutely no business anywhere near a classroom let alone chancellor of an entire school district.

Add Reply
Picture?type=square
Denis Halliwell August 13, 2012, 10:08 AM

But all countries have some poverty, even high ranking countries/cities, etc. it takes more than poverty to pull a country's ranking down.

2 Replies
Picture?type=square
John Elfrank-Dana August 13, 2012, 1:03 PM

Doubt Sweden, Finland, Denmark, even France have 25% of their children born into poverty like in the US though.

Been to Sweden. Asked to see their slums. Friends took me there... nicer than my Brooklyn neighborhood at the time.

Interesting to note that in Sweden it's against the law to hit your kid. Any connection?

Picture?type=square
John Elfrank-Dana August 13, 2012, 1:23 PM

Doubt Sweden, Finland, Denmark, even France have 25% of their children born into poverty like in the US though.

Been to Sweden. Asked to see their slums. Friends took me there... nicer than my Brooklyn neighborhood at the time.

Interesting to note that in Sweden it's against the law to hit your kid. Any connection?

Add Reply
Picture?type=square
Suzie Null August 13, 2012, 4:41 PM

Why is Michelle Rhee, an untrained "teacher" who only stayed in the classroom for 3 years, even put in the category of Dianne Ravitch, a person with an exemplary career in school history, research, teaching, and a member of Bush's education panel? It's a bit like creating a foreign policy "debate" between Joe the Plumber and Condoleza Rice.

Add Reply
Picture?type=square
John Elfrank-Dana August 13, 2012, 7:58 PM

Rhee talks about the narrowing of the curriculum in response to high stakes testing as a "sometimes" phenomenon. I don't know what planet she lives on, but anyone in the class room that reads and follows commentary by parents and students across the country knows teaching to the test is the dominant mode now.

Add Reply
Add a Response
SchoolBook Bulletin Board
Welcome to SchoolBook

Schoolbook is a site dedicated to news, data and conversation about schools in New York City.

Have a News Tip?

Tell us what’s going on in your school. You can e-mail us with your tips or documents, or call 646-801-9698 and leave a voice message.

Contribute to Current & Future News Coverage

Join the Public Insight Network and help our journalists cover education in the city. Your stories and insights can help us create relevant and distinctive reporting. Join more than 100,000 people and become a trusted source.